Going to let that stand for a little bit before answering. (it’s not always good for an author to overtake his/her own thread)

1) People also do bad things in the name of God.
Yes, they do, no question. But this is a variant of the flawed “if religion doesn’t produce absolute results, then none of it is valid” argument discussed above. Many of the problems mentioned by Cynapse under this heading arose out of the church wielding political power. We then have clerics whose primary motivation is power, not Christianity, and who use religion to achieve and wield political power. Is this the fault of religion, or of men? Without religion, do you imagine such men would not seek to acquire and use political power via some other venue? It was the perversion and corruption of religion that gave rise finally to the Reformation. Common people could clearly see that what passed for religion had become a corrupt and venial exercise that did not fulfill their expectations and they could also see that it emanated from humans, not from God. Must Christians be perfect to be validated? Even God does not require that we be perfect, so is your standard higher than God’s? I would also suggest to you that Christianity’s offer of redemption has been a very strong motivator for individuals and society – the idea that, while one may have erred, it is never too late to change and do better in future. If, on the other hand, one must be perfect or be lost, then there is really very little use even trying any more, after the first mistake.

There is a comment that plenty of negative outcomes have been inspired by religion (and perhaps an even great number than the good things). I don’t dispute that there have been negatives, however the comment on the negatives being greater than the good is just that – a comment based on a personal perspective. No one can know what the score is here, but there is in this comment a complete lack of recognition of the countless acts of service that nameless Christians do, because they feel called to serve God. Jesus’ admonition that “in so much as you have done so to the least of these, you have done so to me” (inexact quote, working from memory here) is a powerful call to action. Think of all the people who do community service, help the elderly, assist in hospitals, fundraising for worthy causes, etc. In the main, these people don’t do this for any personal recognition or payment and we will never know their names.

2) People do good things in the name of something other than God
Of course they do and good for them. However, as a widespread societal motivator, “something” does not cut it. Chritianity offers a life with purpose that “something” simply cannot compete with. We cannot run a lab experiment on how societies work with and without Christianity, but we can look back in our history and try to learn the lessons it offers. If British society has, by and large, moved away from the observance and practise of Christianity and at the same time, we see more dysfunctional families and social decay, we are seeing 2 trends that have tracked along side each other. Is it not at least highly likely that there may be a causal relationship here?

You see, part of the problem is that Christiany is a complex and difficult religion. Love the sinner, hate the sin…..easier said than done. Judge not, least ye be judged – now there’s one that a few more people (Christians included) could stand to remember. It’s just not easy to practise this type of thing, while understanding that free will demands that others have the right to make their own decisions. Imperfection in observance is pretty much guaranteed and this is not well understood by people. Many of the complaints about Christianity that I hear arise out of a simple ignorance of how Christianity is actually supposed to work and some kind of feeling that if you are a Christian, you have to be perfect or it doesn’t count….doesn’t count with who?

You suggest that Christians are bullyed into behaving through fear – how about those that are motivated by a higher calling and a life of purpose? by having a hope for the future, even when things aren’t going well today? Don’t you think these motivators have a certain allure for people who don’t want a life of wandering aimlessly? Furthermore, there are now statistics that indicate that Christians, as a group, live longer, are happier, enjoy better health, recover better when they get sick and have a more positive attitude than the general run of society. Are these the same people who have to be bullyed into obeying a fearsome magic man in the sky?

As opposed to Sister Anne Cyril Delaney, head of the English Dept., who I went up against on the literature of James Joyce. She extolled the virtues of his “stream of consciousness” mode which employed expletives on every other page. Ironic, isn’t it when I used expletives in an fit of anger a couple of weeks back. I pointed out to her how Joyce’s works were probably the result of daily drunkenness and were certainly not representative of the finest of Irish literature long available. But Joyce’s works were supported by the English establishment, even abroad, I believe in order to portray the Irish in the least favourable light. I objected to that. As a result of speaking up (my continuous habit) my marks which had been top ranked plummeted in her subject offerings. My Mother at the time advised me to refrain from causing waves and that employing “honey rather than vinegar” would achieve best personal results. My Father’s advice on this was “always do the right thing.” I chose the latter.

I’ve never seen the merit in “closed cliques.” My theory is, that if the clique closes on admission to outsiders, you can conclude members are disturbed by perhaps the merit posed in the content.

Additionally, Brian S. had the best grasp of the actual history (definitely a subjective study, but based on a conglomeration of theorists) in the post at JNW a few entries back.

Your point is indeed valid that confirmed atheists/agnostics can and do have love, respect for their fellow human beings/travellers. And readily demonstrate it in their daily lives. The source of their love/commitments no doubt emanates from deep within their beings. Recognition of this is important and life affirming.